Where's Wimpy?

[Moetown]

I fronted him the cash for a burger last week, and he's supposed to pay me for it today.

[Doctor Rock]

Wimpy sounds like an asshole. 

[Doctor Rock]

Man, i was going to call today's thread "Rooting for Matthew"...  But Moe beat me to it, and he got to call it whatever he wanted. 


Anyway, I'm rooting for Matt.  Let's all root for Matt together, with a liberal sprinkling of PMAs. 

[Doctor Rock]

Pat, did you read this: "It's simple: once you accept that self-interest and profit as practised on a mass scale create the greatest possible benefits for any society, pretty much any act of personal enrichment can be justified as a contribution to the "great creative cauldron of capitalism", generating wealth and spurring economic growth, even if it's only for yourself and your friends."

Talk to any "invisible hand of the market" fundamentalist, and you will hear the same shit, repeated ad nauseam, used as a justification for nearly everything.  They my phrase it differently, but it always comes down to "you can make omelets without breaking some eggs", that is, the ends justify the means.  They truly believe that, through unfettered markets and gung-ho capitalism, they will solve all problems. 

They're that stupid. 

The irony is that they do not believe in "unfettered markets" at all and, in fact, the conservatives are actually the world's greatest proponents of state interventionism. They are statists and what is referred to as democracy is merely state capitalism. To see what unregulated markets look like, look at the third world sweat shop colonies where neoliberal policies are forced upon a defenseless population. American coprorations feed regularly at the public trough and are heavily subsidized and protected, while the World Bank and IMF bind the already feeble limbs of their competition in developing nations. This is anything but "unfettered".

Well, I dunno what the Bush administration really believes in, but I have argued enough times with libertarians, conservatives and other types of right wingers on the net and elsewhere to know that the rank and file, for the most part, are sincere believers, in the same way that most catholics are sincere believers in the value of prayer, but still will take chemo if they get cancer.  That is, they believe in it as an ultimate ideal, the thing to strive for.  The free-market crowd usually attribute all the successes to free-markets, and all the failures to the intervention of the government.  And if it fails, it was the government's fault, government regulations did it, so the government should bail them out anyway.

[Doctor Rock]

I once had an argument with a free-market crckpot about the value of US style "free-markets" vs. scandinavian social-democracy.  He pointed out that the GDP of, I think, Denmark (or was it Sweden?) was smaller than the GDP of the state of Mississippi (?) (or some other poor southern state).  I don't even remember it correctly, and I didn't check his figures.  See, he completely missed the point: Scandinavian countries indubitably have a higher standard of living than any southern US state.  If his figures were true and they have managed to do it on a smaller GDP, that means that their system of government is, at least in my opinion, much better. 

We simply didn't have the same philosophy about the role of government. 

[Tripp]

Superior to Mississippi's? That's not saying much.

[bebopbalogna]

THERE IS NO standard of living in mississippi.

[Doctor Rock]

Superior to Mississippi's? That's not saying much.

I know!  If what he said is true, that the gross domestic product of Mississippi is actually larger than that of, say Denmark (or something like that, with another scandinavian country and southern state), the fact that Danes, on average, live far better and longer than most Mississippians should clearly be a strike against the way Mississippi is run.  But my interlocutor couldn't see that.  I don't think it was just plain old stupidity.  I think his prejudices kept him from seeing it.  

[Poop Fresh-Herbed Pickles]

Portugal Holds on to Words Few Can Grasp

[Poop Fresh-Herbed Pickles]

Hamburgers are becoming a hot-button topic around here.

[Doctor Rock]

Portugal Holds on to Words Few Can Grasp

I hope Pessoa's papers stay in the country.  And that text is filled with bullshit stereotypes about the Portuguese. 

[matthew]

Pat, did you read this: "It's simple: once you accept that self-interest and profit as practised on a mass scale create the greatest possible benefits for any society, pretty much any act of personal enrichment can be justified as a contribution to the "great creative cauldron of capitalism", generating wealth and spurring economic growth, even if it's only for yourself and your friends."

Talk to any "invisible hand of the market" fundamentalist, and you will hear the same shit, repeated ad nauseam, used as a justification for nearly everything.  They my phrase it differently, but it always comes down to "you can make omelets without breaking some eggs", that is, the ends justify the means.  They truly believe that, through unfettered markets and gung-ho capitalism, they will solve all problems. 

They're that stupid. 

The irony is that they do not believe in "unfettered markets" at all and, in fact, the conservatives are actually the world's greatest proponents of state interventionism. They are statists and what is referred to as democracy is merely state capitalism. To see what unregulated markets look like, look at the third world sweat shop colonies where neoliberal policies are forced upon a defenseless population. American coprorations feed regularly at the public trough and are heavily subsidized and protected, while the World Bank and IMF bind the already feeble limbs of their competition in developing nations. This is anything but "unfettered".

Well, I dunno what the Bush administration really believes in, but I have argued enough times with libertarians, conservatives and other types of right wingers on the net and elsewhere to know that the rank and file, for the most part, are sincere believers, in the same way that most catholics are sincere believers in the value of prayer, but still will take chemo if they get cancer.  That is, they believe in it as an ultimate ideal, the thing to strive for.  The free-market crowd usually attribute all the successes to free-markets, and all the failures to the intervention of the government.  And if it fails, it was the government's fault, government regulations did it, so the government should bail them out anyway.

I wasn't arguing against their rhetoric (which you accurately describe above), I was pointing out that they do not wish for a true FREE market, because they would forced to part ways with their massive public subsidies and dispense with the substantial governmental interference in the economies of other nations.

[Poop Fresh-Herbed Pickles]

they do not wish for a true FREE market, because they would forced to part ways with their massive public subsidies.

Yeah, but that's what makes it so "free" for them.

[matthew]

I once had an argument with a free-market crckpot about the value of US style "free-markets" vs. scandinavian social-democracy.  He pointed out that the GDP of, I think, Denmark (or was it Sweden?) was smaller than the GDP of the state of Mississippi (?) (or some other poor southern state).  I don't even remember it correctly, and I didn't check his figures.  See, he completely missed the point: Scandinavian countries indubitably have a higher standard of living than any southern US state.  If his figures were true and they have managed to do it on a smaller GDP, that means that their system of government is, at least in my opinion, much better. 

We simply didn't have the same philosophy about the role of government. 

My rightwing cousin once sent my parents an email full of the same junk economics (along with the Mississippi GDP example). My life has been markedly improved by my tuning him out.

I wonder how accurate this is:

US States Renamed For Countries With Similar GDPs

With the implementation of neoliberal economic reforms, India's GDP has risen and many new billionaires have been created. At the same time India slides back on the Human Development Index.

[captqitn]

Lets do our best not to talk about hamburgers, here, k?



and wait.. did I miss part of Matt's story?    WAS she, in fact, single?      It wasn't clear.