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Why do you think they call it DOPE?
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Author Topic: Hit me with those laser beams  (Read 3651 times)
matthew
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« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2007, 12:32:26 PM »

I have always explained it as, just as a religious person does not need to know or be able to prove that deities do exist, I do not have to prove that they do not exist in order to be irreligious/antitheist (I am loathe to use the term "atheist" for the same reason as Jonathan Miller*). Far too many people believe agnosticism means "I don't know for certain if God exists or not" -  if that were the definition, every single person on the planet would be an agnostic (though several billion would never admit it, as they "know" __________ "loves them"). Much like every child is born an "atheist" (again, see below*) before being confronted with the idea by elders. Agnosticism is generally defined as the belief that the nature or existence of God cannot be proven...which is why there are religious agnostics. Many use the term as a "safe base" or fence-sitting option. This is a popular, but not all that accurate use of the term.

I admit that I have no way of knowing whether God exists or not - I am hardly alone, as even the Pope does not know - but this does not make me an agnostic. I am an atheist because I have no reason to believe in any of the theisms borne of man's imagination and I have seen no evidence of a creator. Many have stated that religion stems from the fear of the unknown and I must agree as there are few (i.e. none) major religions which speak of a great omnipotent creator of multiverse who thinks know more of humans than it does the sea slug or a fig tree. In the World of Ultimate Truth humans just happen to be center of this vast existence.

I do not know, no one knows, and it would be foolish of anyone to state that they do (again, this does not stop the majority of the planet from being religious) whether OR NOT God exists. Yes, atheists can be just as foolish.

   
*"I only doubt because I am confronted with people who have religious certainty. You see, I am even reluctant to use the term 'atheist' of myself, not because I am embarrassed by it as people, or frightened of committing myself to it...I am embarrassed to call myself an atheist because it is hardly worth having a name for, anymore than I would have a name for not believing in witches."
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 12:35:17 PM by matthew » Logged

i must have been bit by a spider, when i was very small. because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going up the fucking wall. i must have been fenced-in to a long straight road when i was nine or ten because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going around the fucking bend...
Doctor Rock
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« Reply #121 on: May 18, 2007, 12:47:14 PM »

Ever heard of Bertrand Russel's Teapot analogy?

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.   ”

In his book A Devil's Chaplain, Richard Dawkins developed the teapot theme a little further:

“The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell's teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don't exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don't stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don't warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don't kneecap those who put the tea in first.”

Some people have taken the teapot analogy further by inventing parody religions like the church of the pink unicorn or the flying spaghetty monster.  
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«Etre bête, égoïste et avoir une bonne santé, voilà les trois conditions voulues pour être heureux. Mais si la première vous manque, tout est perdu.»
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« Reply #122 on: May 18, 2007, 02:16:26 PM »


Some people have taken the teapot analogy further by inventing parody religions like the church of the pink unicorn or the flying spaghetty monster.  

like scientology and the church of the jedi knights.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 02:18:28 PM by destiny's daddy » Logged

giminamee.
matthew
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« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2007, 06:23:10 PM »

Ever heard of Bertrand Russel's Teapot analogy?

Yes, I have read a lot of Russell. The Dawkins bit is new to me, but is typically hostile of him.
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i must have been bit by a spider, when i was very small. because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going up the fucking wall. i must have been fenced-in to a long straight road when i was nine or ten because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going around the fucking bend...
Doctor Rock
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« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2007, 09:52:46 PM »

Well, I share Dawkins' "hostility" regarding religion.  Well, actually, I don't think it's really hostility.  It's more like profound annoyance mixed in with bewilderment at the kinds of things people still can be made to believe in in this day and age!  
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 12:12:59 AM by He's dead, Jim! » Logged

«Etre bête, égoïste et avoir une bonne santé, voilà les trois conditions voulues pour être heureux. Mais si la première vous manque, tout est perdu.»
matthew
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« Reply #125 on: May 19, 2007, 11:53:21 PM »

'Twas a joke ("The reason organized religion merits outright hostility...").

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i must have been bit by a spider, when i was very small. because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going up the fucking wall. i must have been fenced-in to a long straight road when i was nine or ten because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going around the fucking bend...
matthew
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« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2007, 11:53:56 PM »

Now it 'twas a joke explain'd.
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i must have been bit by a spider, when i was very small. because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going up the fucking wall. i must have been fenced-in to a long straight road when i was nine or ten because now i am grown up i spend five days a week going around the fucking bend...
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